108: A Proven Workflow for Instagram Growth and Revenue with Brock Johnson
Today I’m joined by Instagram strategist Brock Johnson, and we go deep into the systems, workflows, and mindset that allow him to create hundreds of pieces of content each month while still running a full business.
Brock shares how he batches content, how he separates idea generation from filming and editing, and how he decides what to delegate to his team. We also explore how Instagram content actually connects to leads and sales, including the different roles Reels and Stories play inside your marketing funnel.
You’ll also hear Brock’s take on DM automation in 2026, why many small business owners accidentally make Instagram harder than it needs to be, and the one metric that matters more than most people realize.
What You’ll Learn in This Episode:
03:11 – How Brock landed an interview with the CEO of Instagram
10:26 – Brock’s weekly workflow for producing massive amounts of content
12:20 – Why batching content prevents burnout for business owners
14:15 – The content creation system that makes consistency easier
20:51 – Why talking-head videos often drive more qualified leads
27:27 – The biggest mistake business owners make when selling on Instagram
30:19 – The difference between Reels and Stories in your sales funnel
34:38 – Creative ways to use DM automation in 2026
42:37 – What your automated welcome DM should actually say
45:03 – The biggest misconception about growing on Instagram
48:19 – The metric that matters more than most people realize
Key Takeaways:
Batching content creates sustainability.
Creating posts in batches instead of daily helps eliminate burnout and improves consistency.
Reels and Stories serve different roles.
Reels attract new audiences, while Stories deepen trust with existing followers.
Selling should happen more often than most people think.
If people don’t regularly see your offers, they won’t remember them.
DM automation works best when it sparks conversation.
Interactive automations can build trust and increase engagement.
Entertainment drives attention.
Educational content performs better when it is engaging and entertaining first.
Shares matter more than you think.
Shares are one of the strongest signals of resonance and distribution on Instagram.
Links Mentioned:
A Truth You Need to Hear:
“Instagram growth isn’t as complicated as people think. Make good content and make a lot of it.” — Brock Johnson
S3 Ep108 Transcript - A Proven Workflow for Instagram Growth
and Revenue with Brock Johnson
00:00
Today I'm bringing on a special guest who is truly a leader and innovator in the Instagram marketing space. He is Brock Johnson. Brock and I are both speaking at Social Media Marketing World in April in Anaheim, California. So if you haven't grabbed your ticket yet, this is your sign, come meet us in person. It's gonna be incredible. But today's conversation, we go deep. Brock breaks down his entire workflow and how he's able to produce an insane amount of content consistently.
00:27
how he batches, how he plans, and what he does himself versus what he delegates to his team, and how he builds his systems that make content creation sustainable instead of stressful. We also explored how your Instagram content actually connects to leads and sales. We talked about the difference between reels and stories when it comes to conversion and what's working right now with DM automation in 2026.
00:55
There is so much gold packed into this episode. So if you're ready to simplify your strategies, streamline your backend systems and make your content work harder for your business, this one's for you. Let's go.
01:11
Welcome to Strut It, a podcast about creating bold visibility on social media with zero apologies. I'm Elizabeth Marberry, your host and Instagram marketing coach. I help small business owners get seen on Instagram and monetize their offers so they can make more money doing their sole led work. If you're tired of spinning your wheels on Instagram and you're seeking simple, proven Instagram marketing strategies that actually work, you're in the right place.
01:40
Let's dive in.
01:50
Welcome back to the show. I'm so thrilled that you have joined me for today's conversation. You are in for a treat because I am bringing on none other than Brock Johnson. I'm so excited. If you're not already familiar with Brock, he's an Instagram strategist who helps creators and small businesses grow and monetize on the platform. He's the founder of Instaclub Hub and host of the Build Your Tribe podcast, one of my favorite podcasts.
02:18
and he has grown a combined following of over 1 million across his platforms. And he also consults directly with Meta and Instagram staff. Brock, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for having me. So excited to be here. Yeah. So before we get into all the goods, I know that you recently had the privilege of sitting down with the CEO of Instagram, Adam Ozeri.
02:44
And I know from following you and kind of watching your journey that this was definitely like a pinch me moment for you. And it's something that you kind of what I would call in a woo way manifested. I'm curious, can you tell our listeners, like, how did you get this conversation with Adam and what was that like for you? Yeah, totally. Well, I'm a big believer in shooting your shot. Like one of my philosophies on Instagram is just press post. And, you know, one day I quite literally had a dream.
03:11
that I was following him around Instagram headquarters and kind of like picking his brain and just like talking about Instagram and kind of just like shadowing him for the day. And so I woke up and I posted that on threads and I didn't really think much of it. I just posted said I had a dream, this is what happened and went about my day. And then later that afternoon I opened up my phone and I was casually scrolling threads and I realized he had replied to my thread and he said, well, what do you want to know? And I was like, oh my gosh, this is my opportunity.
03:39
I just pressed post in the original like post about the how to dream. Now I need to really shoot my shot here. And I was like, okay, I have his attention. He wants to know what I want to know. And I said, well, you know, there's actually quite a few things that I want to know. I'd love to have a full sit down interview if we can, let's make it happen. And that's where I left it. And I didn't really expect it to go much more than that. Like I didn't expect there to be any follow-up. I honestly probably didn't even expect him to see that message.
04:06
But a few hours later, I received an email from his assistant who basically coordinates his whole life and his appearances and everything. And she was like, hey, Adam saw your thread and he sent it to me and said, let's set something up. And so we went from there and it was like a five or six month process to get on his calendar and solidify a day and a time. And he's a really busy guy. He's got a lot of hats he has to wear, as you can imagine, as the head of Instagram. So.
04:32
I was really, really lucky to get that interview. It was a really, really cool experience. He's a great guy, really down to earth. But it really just all went back to literally having a dream and then just being bold and willing enough to post about it, even though it was probably cringe to make a thread about how I dreamt about following the head of Instagram around and then being bold enough to shoot my shot and actually say, let's do an interview. I love this story too because
04:57
I had a similar experience where there is an author, his name is Jeff Woods, and he's the author of the AI Driven Leader. And he's just someone I really look up to. And I did a post on LinkedIn. And in my podcast and in that post on LinkedIn, I literally said, if anyone knows Jeff Woods, send him my way because I would love to bring him on the podcast. And then he commented on the thread on LinkedIn and said, hey, I would love to come on your show and be a guest. These stories are such great.
05:27
examples of the power of social media and, you know, why not shoot your shot? Why not put yourself out there and ask for what you want and what's the worst that'll happen? No response or crickets or whatever. I just want to say one other piece about this, which was when I was watching you move through this, just as an observer of your content, I noticed how vulnerable it was for you in the sense of how nervous you were right before you did it.
05:56
How did you manage through that? Because I bet that brought up a lot in you to be, you know, obviously this is what you do. Like you live and breathe Instagram all the time, but then to sit down with the head of Instagram himself, like how were you able to manage your own anxiety and feelings about that? That's a good question and I appreciate the recognition there. It was something where I really wanted to just document for the entire audience, all of my followers that
06:24
hey, here's how I'm preparing for this. And I wanted them to feel kind of like along for the journey. I posted my YouTube video, I think the week prior to our interview coming out, kind of telling the story of how I got the interview. And then the week after the interview was a follow-up episode sharing kind of my thoughts and firsthand experiences. So I really wanted people to feel a part of it, but...
06:43
First of all, I have a background in sports and athletics. played college football. And so with that, there's a lot of like high pressure, high stress environments where you're expected to perform and deliver. And so because of that, 99 % of what I do with my job now doesn't feel very stressful or high pressure. I oftentimes remind the rest of our staff like, hey, guys, we're just doing marketing here. Like we're not saving lives. I have friends who are police officers and firefighters and first responders. I'm like, that's not us. Like we're writing emails for a campaign, right?
07:14
reminding myself that was important. But also, like, I recognized that this was a big mountaintop moment in my professional career. And so I really wasn't nervous until, like, a few hours before on the day of. I try not to, ruminate on things. I try not to, like, get too far out of the present moment and really stress out too much about the future or regret anything in the past. So it wasn't until, like, maybe 9 or 10 a.m. on that day.
07:40
that I really started to be like, oh boy, like this is happening. I started finalizing my questions. I started kind of like sending them to some of my other close friends who are kind of in the industry and asking for their feedback. Hey, anything last minute that you really wanna make sure I ask, things like that. And then really the most stressful part was we got there at like 2 p.m. or probably even a little bit before then, maybe like 1.30 in the afternoon. And the interview wasn't supposed to start till four, but we had to get there that early to.
08:08
prep, get everything set up, like situate the room the way we wanted it to. And then he showed up at like 4 15. So it was like almost three hours of just kind of sitting there pacing, not really knowing when he's going to arrive. Like his assistant was like, oh, he's on his way, whatever. So it was that like being in the room. was kind of like, I would imagine on a much lesser extent how like a player warming up for the Superbowl feels. Yes.
08:31
or like that feeling of like, there's the national anthem and like the introducing the teams and it's those moments right before kickoff. That's when the nerves really hit. But as soon as we actually hit record and slap the timer thing to, know, sync up the audio and we started yapping, then it was a great conversation. But there was definitely lots of butterflies. Oh my gosh. Yeah. And what a great lesson for everyone listening, you know, in terms of when you're doing anything in your business, your life, just bringing your audience behind the scenes.
09:00
It really helps an audience to feel invested in you as a creator or a business owner or founder. And I also really appreciate the vulnerability of, oh my gosh, I felt these nerves. I mean, anytime we can authentically show that vulnerable side, I believe it builds bridges and not everyone sitting down with the head of Instagram, but a lot of people might even feel those jitters when it comes time to post their content, right? Yeah. I love how you brought everyone behind the scenes.
09:30
So transitioning into, you know, this podcast, everyone listening is a small business owner, creative entrepreneur, you know, creating content is not their full-time job. They understand how important it is. I have these conversations every day with my clients about, know, okay, I know I need to do this. This is marketing 2026, right? Like this is where people are hanging out. I want to create content.
09:57
And they tend to get really overwhelmed because they're wearing a lot of different hats in their business. And so one of my goals with this podcast is to simplify Instagram and really share what is only relevant for them and make it as simple as possible. So in prepping for this interview, Brock and I were talking about, he has devised a workflow for himself and his team. And Brock, I'm excited for you to kind of share a little bit about
10:26
any of your process behind the scenes of creating your content, like all the systems and workflows and scheduling tools and all of that, because I believe that if we can systematize this and streamline it for people, it'll make it simpler for them. So walk me through a typical week for you. Like, what are you doing on days? Like, do you have a batching day? Do you have an editing day? I know you have a team. Give us an idea of
10:55
how you're creating all of this content, because I know you create a high volume of content. Yeah, just for context, I post, I think, roughly five times per day to my Instagram feed right now. And most of those posts are also being posted on TikTok, YouTube Shorts, et cetera. I also do one to two podcast episodes a week. And then I post maybe five to 10 threads slash tweets slash blue skies every single day. So just like text posts. Wow. So it's hundreds of pieces of content a month.
11:23
And content is not my full-time job. I oftentimes when people say, are you a constant creator or a business owner? I'm a business owner. I'm an entrepreneur first and foremost. Case in point, I can't remember the last time I made content. Not to say like it was months ago, but like it was probably sometime last week. I can't even remember the specific day, but it's not a daily thing. And so think that's the first mistake that a lot of business owners make is they try to make a new post every single day. No one else operates any other aspect of their business like that. We don't.
11:52
write an email every single day. We don't record a new YouTube video every single day. We don't send a new page out every single, like no one's doing that every single day. But then when it comes to social media and the marketing and the content, business owners are stuck on this hamster wheel of I wake up, I have to come up with an idea. I have to film it, it, create it, script it, all of that from start to finish in one day. I press post and then, my gosh, it's 5 p.m. and I'm exhausted. And that was my one post for the day. And I got to do it all over again tomorrow.
12:20
and that is what leads to burnout. So the first recommendation that I would have for people is to create in batches rather than creating daily. And in fact, this is kind of like a hot take or an unpopular opinion or just something you don't expect to hear from a social media coach like myself, which is I recommend if right now at the time of listening to this, you have zero posts ready to go, like already done, fully edited, scripted, the caption is written and it's ready to be posted. If you have zero, then take the next two weeks off.
12:50
When I say that, I don't mean go sit on the beach and sip pina coladas and chill. I mean, take the next two weeks off of posting. The algorithm won't punish you. Adam Mazzari won't come knocking on your door to bring you to jail. But what will happen is you will spend the next two weeks batching as much content as possible, creating as many posts for the future as possible. So then when you come back, you have a backlog. You're able to post once a day, but you don't have to create once a day.
13:17
then you can get on a more routine system. And the system that I use, the schedule that I use, isn't strictly defined. It's not like I have Tuesdays from 2 to 4 p.m. I am writing scripts. And Wednesdays from 11 a.m. till noon, I am filming content. For me, that's just not how I like to flow. I like to allow myself to record when I'm feeling good. And sometimes I just, and I'm sure you do too, just like kind of get in the zone. And it's like, hey, I had like three ideas I was gonna film and I just filmed like eight. I just filmed eight reels all in one sitting.
13:46
I like to tell people to use those times to your advantage, but the only way you can do that is first and foremost, if you already have things batched and scheduled for that day or for that week, because then you can give yourself permission. Hey, Tuesday was busy, life got in the way, the kids got crazy, I had to wear a bunch of other hats, I had to be the copywriter, I had to be the editor, I had to do all these other things on that day. But then on Thursday afternoon, you have some peace and quiet, kids are out of the house, you've got all the other tasks checked off for the week, and you're like, hey, I'm looking good today.
14:15
I'm in a good phase, like I'm gonna get into filming content today. And so that's how I typically break it up. To get more specific, I really break it up into specific bite-sized chunks. So I don't make a post from start to finish in one sitting. If I have an idea, or if I'm in a mode, a zone, a time where I am idea writing, that's all I'm doing. I'm not pausing my idea writing to film. I'm just idea writing, or I'm scripting.
14:40
And then at another time, I'm filming, filming, filming, I'm changing shirts, I'm changing locations, I'm changing angles, and I'm filming, filming, filming. And then another time, I'm uploading for my editor or I'm doing the editing myself. In terms of the editing process, I really enjoy editing and I think I'm pretty good at it. I was educated in college and high school in editing. But with all that being said, I say that to say, even if someone is pretty good at it and someone who likes it, it's still something I outsource and delegate because I recognize that there are people who are better than me.
15:09
people who are faster than me, and it's not my zone of genius. I'm gonna guess 99 % of the people listening are not in the edling niche, where they are specifically making content about how to edit content and like selling courses and coaching on becoming a better editor. If that's not you, hire someone to do your edling for you, and that will free you up to focus on recording more videos of yourself, creating more content, coming up with more ideas, the things that really have to come from your brain or have to come from like a really, really talented social media manager.
15:38
So what you just said is so brilliant because I just want to highlight what Brock said so everyone can really connect the dots is that he shared that he is batching these tasks. So he's filming at one point and then at a different point he's maybe editing or at a different point he's writing and scripting hooks. And I think that is such a huge thing. That's what I do too. When I am just high vibe, I always joke when I've showered and put on makeup.
16:08
and I just feel good, right? Maybe that's on a Monday, maybe that's on a Friday. I think I would lose my mind if I had to like know what day that was in advance, especially women in midlife, we're up, we're down, we're sideways, we're right, we're left. So really prioritizing like, I play a game with myself, like how many videos can I film in the next 60 minutes? And I have so much fun with that. And then at a different point doing the other tasks. So I love that you highlighted that, that is really interesting.
16:38
I have a follow-up question for you around, I'm all about like, let's film all at once and then schedule. I like to do a lot of trending audios. And so I'm curious about when you're delegating to a video editor, because I will be totally frank with you. I'm still editing my own videos, but I have become a bottleneck in my own company.
17:04
and I'm actually actively looking to hire a video editor, I have to let that go. There's so many more things I wanna do with my content, like more talking head, more direct to camera videos. I need that video editor, because that's not the best use of my time and it's not my zone of genius to your point. So what is your system? Like let's say I'm a business owner, I hire a video editor. What is the system when it comes to those trending audios? Like let's say it's a lip sync and I'm lip syncing and I'm doing silly things.
17:32
and I always do multiple takes or it's a direct-to-camera talking head video. Are you downloading those, putting them in a Google Drive? Like, I'm so curious the backend system of how you connect this with your team and share all this content with an editor. Great question. So whenever I do a trending audio or a Limp Sync audio or basically any post that needs a specific audio, I'll edit that myself. Okay.
17:59
because usually those are less than 15 seconds, right? And so the time that it would take me to lip sync it, download it to my phone, which Instagram doesn't let you download with the audios, then I'd have to like do a screen recording or like maybe if it wasn't a copyrighted audio, then I could download it. So that's this whole process. And then I got to like airdrop it to my computer or upload it to something. And I got to let my editor know, hey, there's this, it's going to take 10 to 15, 20 minutes for a video that's 20 seconds long. So for those,
18:28
I keep it all on Instagram and I do those myself. So when it comes to like the super quick, I call it like the low hanging fruit content. I do that myself because it's going to take more time to give it to a team member to pass it off than it is to do it myself. Now I do have a team member who she actually has her PhD basically in Instagram. The full title is she has her PhD in strategic communications with a dissertation on qualitative Instagram analysis for small local churches growing their segregation.
18:57
We could get really lost in the weeds, but for all intents and purposes, she's a doctorate of Instagram and she helps us within our business doing research. She does all of our studies. She collects data on our members and like figure out what's working. But also one of her responsibilities is sending me trending audios. So if people are listening and they're looking for something to outsource, trend research is something that you could pass off to a virtual assistant. They don't have to be a doctorate of Instagram, just someone who's basically scrolling on Instagram, someone who really enjoys scrolling and
19:27
As she's scrolling, if she sees an audio that pops up over and over again, or there's like a trend blowing up, she'll send it to me. It used to be that she would send it to me only if it was like, she thinks it could relate to my Instagram. But then I was like, hey, let that be my thing. Let that be my zone of genius is figuring out if this could work for me. If you hear a trend, if you see a popular format, just send it to me. And so now every week I have like maybe 15 to 20 of those. And so that even makes my process much more efficient.
19:56
because then when it's time for me to record, I don't have to like scroll, scroll, scroll. Oh, there's a trend, scroll, scroll, scroll. Oh, I've heard that audio a few times and like do that research myself. I still do just because I'm a normal person who's going to scroll through social media sometimes. But it's really handy if I have like an hour long block to film and I have booboo, booboo, booboo, booboo, eight trending audios or trending formats from this week that she sent me. And then I can just kind of bang those out and record them all at the time. I know there's a long answer. Those trending audio ones I do edit myself. If it's a talking head reel,
20:25
or anything like that, that's when I will have my editor do it. Okay, and you just made me feel better because there was this part of me that's like, how do I not have a video editor yet? know, because I create so much content, but you just highlighted why, which is that a lot of the stuff I do, because I'm running two businesses, I have two kids, I am doing that low hanging fruit, the short seven second videos with the hook, and then I bring a lot of value in the caption and all of that, but...
20:51
in my industry, need to be doing those direct-to-camera authority building educational reels more. And when I edit them, they take me forever. So of course I don't do them as often. So for everybody listening, I want you to think about like, where do you feel a bottleneck in your business, right? And even if you're not yet in a place to hire a VA or a marketing intern or a video editor, what you can think about is
21:20
the different processes that Brock just walked us through, is that exactly what I teach my clients. At one point during the week when I'm scrolling, I'm listening for those trending audios that I like that resonate with my brand and I save them. So I have a saved music folder. So when I go to batch record content, I can just go into my saved folder and be like, okay, yep, this one, this one, this one. And I'll be honest with you guys and Brock, I'm curious about how you do this. A lot of times when I'm filming those lip syncs or those trends,
21:49
I don't even necessarily know the hook I'm gonna put on the screen, but I'm not worried about that. I just know I will be able to use it in some way. And then I get in my flow and I can just quickly record and then those short videos are really quick and easy to edit. And then if you're listening to this and you're thinking, I do wanna do more of those direct to camera talking head videos, then maybe that is something that you explore outsourcing because I do find that while those, at least for me,
22:18
get a lot less views, they get more qualified leads and followers to my business. Do you find that as well? Yeah, that's absolutely the case is that the low hanging fruit, the quick trend, the seven second audios, those are going to get more views. Those are easily digestible to use a food analogy. But the big seven course meal, which is like your 60 second talking head reel, it's not going to get as many views.
22:43
But the people who do finish that meal, they're going to be really satisfied. They're going to be a better quality viewer. And so I think that there's definitely a healthy mix that has to go on. Myself personally, we hired my editor back in 2022 or 2023, I believe it was. Like you said, it's made the process so much simpler. So then, and I do the exact same thing with my trends like you do, where I film a bunch of trends and I don't even know necessarily what the text is going to be or what the hook is going to say. And if I really don't know, maybe I'll...
23:09
even record one version of the trend where I'm like happily lip syncing it and then another where I'm like sad, depressed lip syncing it because I just don't know what the text is gonna say yet. I can figure that out later. But it's the same process that I use for my spoken direct to camera talking head reels. I will batch record, record, record, record as many as I can. I will upload them all. If we wanna get lost a little bit in the weeds here, I upload all of mine to Google Drive and I have kind of a robust like naming system and I have a...
23:37
Google spreadsheet that is linked to it so that I can then check things off as we move down from idea to scripted to film to uploaded. Wow. I let my editor know, hey, there's eight new videos in there. And then I changed to editing because she's editing it. And then when she's done, she's like, hey, videos are done. I can review them. And I think maybe in our three years of working together, I've had to give her like a couple of notes. And usually it's not even like an actual like creative decision that she made that I disagree with. It's usually just like,
24:06
Hey, when this got exported, it got wonky here. Like, hey, it got compressed weird, so can you re-export it? But it's really, really made the talking head reels so much easier, but also so much more engaging. Because to your point, it's gonna take you a while to edit it. And at a certain point, you're like, I'm over it. Like, this is not my zone of genius. It's not what I'm good at. It's taking me an hour for one 60 second reel. But if you're paying an editor, they're not gonna get bored of it because they know that there's dollar signs on the other end. So they're gonna put their best foot forward. And if not,
24:35
then they're going to get let go and you're going to find a new editor. Question for you about direct-to-camera videos when you're outsourcing that to a video editor. So what I teach is that when you're doing your direct-to-camera, of course you're hooking with whatever you're saying in the first few words. But I also teach that there should be a hook, like a text hook on the screen above your head that says something different than what you're speaking. That's going to like essentially
25:04
give people an idea of why they want to watch the entire video. And then there's like the top line of caption hook, right? Like all of the hooks, okay? Question for you about this. I know this is a very, very detailed question, but with your video editor, are you telling them like, want this hook on the screen? You are. I am, yeah. I tell them everything. So like I'll record and I'll speak directly to the camera and I'll have my enthusiasm and I'll say my thing. And then I'll kind of like,
25:33
change tones and I'll say, hey, her name is Hannah, my edler. And I'll say, hey Hannah, can you write? And I'll tell her what the text should say. like, hey, what I'm thinking for this reel is that we put like a green piece of text here and a red text here. And I kind of walk her through visually what I'm thinking. And then we also have a shared Google doc where I can give reference videos or like, hey, this is the video that inspired this one or just like edling notes. If there's anything that is hard to articulate spoken, I'd rather like just type it out for her. But yeah, that's the process we follow.
26:02
And by the way, I know you said you're looking for an editor yourself. If you want me to hook you up with Hannah or if anyone listening wants, Hannah's got like a pretty great team now who helps her with editing. So it's not just her. Just shoot me a DM and I'll help anyone out who messages me with her info as well. Well, I want to transition from workflow and backend systems to leads and sales because I know that
26:29
it's so important that we stop the scroll, right? I feel like a lot of Instagram coaches are like constantly talking about hooks and how to hook attention. And of course that is like number one priority because otherwise no one will see your video or your content, right? I totally understand that. I feel like there's always this disconnect for business owners in terms of, okay, Brock, I'm creating all the content, I'm doing the trends, I'm doing the talking heads, but I don't understand how this content
26:58
connects into my leads and sales funnel on Instagram. So I would love to start there. Like, number one, do you see that disconnect too with people who are like months and months into creating content and they're like, wait, why am I doing this? The confusion that people have. Yeah, absolutely. think, you know, social media is a great marketing tool. I would argue it's one of the most powerful marketing tools in human history, if not the most powerful marketing tools in human history, because
27:27
We have the opportunity every single day to reach millions of people pretty much for free, just by posting good content online. Which is crazy when you think about the fact that people, big businesses are paying millions of dollars for TV ads and reaching less people, right? But yeah, there's definitely a disconnect where people are so focused on, I'm just gonna make reels, I'm just gonna make these trends, I'm just gonna do this content, and they kind of forget, hey yeah, you're a business owner. In fact, we recently had a live training in our Instaclub and I pulled the audience and I was like, how often are y'all
27:57
selling or promoting. And there was like a very small subset who was saying multiple times a day. And then there was a big gap. And then there was a huge majority of people who was like, maybe a couple times a month, if I'm lucky, like maybe once a month. And it's like, think about that. There's a famous study that you have to see a TV ad something like 20 times before it really sticks and resonates with you. And you kind of like can grasp what it is. And
28:23
We don't realize how many times we actually see an ad before we truly see the ad. But then when it comes to social media, it's like we're posting one sales post a month. And first of all, that post is probably not even very good because you only have 12 attempts per year to iterate and improve and work on it and work out the kinks. So it's probably already not very good. So it's not going to get very much engagement. So it's not going to get very many views. And then it's not going to work, so to speak. It's not going to actually convert leads and customers. And then it's like this negative feedback loop where then you get
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down and depressed and maybe I don't get it and maybe I'm doing something wrong and you second guessing and you're to watch more trainings and listen to more podcasts. And then you're seeing this loop where you're never ever posting sales related content. You're never ever making sales. But yeah, at the end of the day, like if we're all business owners, we need to post about our business. We need to actually show up and try to make sales on social or else there's no real point in all of this. Yeah, absolutely. I love that you highlighted that piece around people have to
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see the content and hear the call to action, hear about your paid offer so many times. I feel like that number just keeps going up. I remember when it used to be like seven touch points and then it was like nine and then now it's like 20. I mean, who knows? I see Instagram as such a powerful tool of just staying top of mind for even your current followers, right? Like even those people who already are warm to hot leads, Instagram Stories, for example, is phenomenal for that.
29:50
I'm curious, let's talk about Reels and then let's talk about Instagram stories and how those two different surfaces and pieces of content can drive sales or leads. So let's start with Reels. Yeah. So when I think about Reels and how Reels can drive leads and sales, you know, if we're thinking of this as one big giant funnel, literally I want everyone listening to envision like a funnel that you have in your kitchen.
30:19
Instagram in general is the top part of your funnel, meaning that it's where you get attention, it's where you get people onto your email list. You can make sales, you can make conversions, but oftentimes those things happen off of Instagram, especially the more expensive, high ticket your product is, the more likely that's going to happen farther and farther down the funnel. But when I think of Instagram reels, I think of them as like almost the very tip top of the funnel. And that's because they have such a high reach percentage that comes from non followers.
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Or to say that another way, so many of your views are coming from people who do not know you. And so if these are people who do not know you, they do not follow you, they probably haven't seen any of your posts before, your content in reels that is selling is likely going to have to be more engaging, more entertainment focused. It's likely going to have to keep that stranger in mind. Like if you were to sell your course, your product, your guide, whatever, to someone who has never met you, who likely has no idea what you do or what your background is,
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you're gonna have to include some different things than if you were selling to like your grandma who sees every single post you make or like your best friend from high school who sees every single story you post, right? There's different levels of background and knowledge there. And also it takes a little bit more to get a stranger's attention than it does to get your best friend's attention, right? So if we're thinking of that in terms of the funnel, that's how I think about reels and selling, but they can be very powerful for sales because
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Like I said, they reached more non-followers so they can go viral. You can have a sales related post that gets 10 million views. That happens, right? It's not super common, but it definitely happens. That's your free halftime ad. That's your free Super Bowl ad that you just got from social media. So that's where I think of reels in the funnel. Stories are a little bit farther down the funnel. Not significantly, like we're not getting down to the actual bottom of the funnel, but they're farther down the funnel because stories are only for people who already follow you.
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So newsflash to anyone listening, I hope this knowledge is common at this point, but some people don't know and no shame in that. Stories are only viewed by your existing followers. And so because of that, stories do not help you grow your following. 99 % of your new followers, they will not come from a story that you posted. But if we're thinking about the other side of that coin, that means it's the people who are invested already, right? They've been following you, they've been watching your feed posts, and now they wanna get to know you a little bit more. They're seeing behind the scenes of your life, they're seeing...
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all the different interests and passions and hobbies that you have that make you a human. Earlier this week, I was posting some clips of myself snowboarding and I got multiple messages from people who were like, oh my gosh, I love your tips so much more now that I know that you snowboard or oh my gosh, you just became my favorite Instagram coach because I didn't know that you snowboard. Like things like that where people can get to know you better and they can connect with you on a deeper level. Random sidebar and also on the topic of snowboarding, Maddie Mastro is a Olympic snowboarder and she posted a
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kind of like recap debrief after the Olympics. And the top comment that had by far the most likes was, wait, and it was sarcastic, but it was, wait, I didn't know that world famous beanie knitter, Maddie Mastro was in the Olympics. And that's because she, a professional snowboarder, is also posting on her Instagram stories that she loves knitting and she's like on her way to events and she's knitting and she's making these little gloves and these beanies and these hats. And so I say all of that to just say, stories are a place to document.
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They're a place to let people kind of see the behind the scenes, but all of that ultimately builds trust and can really, really help making sales. And so it's a really great place to have that conversion, to have that follower to customer jump actually take place because it's your most loyal followers who are watching your stories. love that. I love that differentiator between reels and stories. And let's talk about DM automation and how DM automation can...
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connect the dots. I know you've tested a lot of different DM automations. We've talked a lot about DM automation on this podcast, so my listeners are pretty savvy on it. I'm just curious what you see is working with DM automation right now, because I remember when it first came out, no one was really using it, so it felt like a huge opportunity. It's still a huge opportunity. It's still how I'm growing my email list every single day on Instagram. But I'm just curious, has the strategy changed at all?
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What are you seeing? And for those of you who are listening and you're like, okay, wait, what are you talking about with DM automation? Essentially, DM automation is when you can set up a direct message with a link. Or you can also share not just links, but you can ask different questions to like qualify your audience. And I'm sure if you've been on Instagram and you saw someone say comment this keyword below and I'll DM you the link to this thing.
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That's what we're talking about. So Brock, what are you seeing is working with DM automation right now? And is there anything that isn't working as well as it used to? Yeah, great question. So first and foremost, it definitely feels, oh, this like gold rush of DM automation is over, but it's not. I think that us in the industry, we're so close to the forest that we can't see the trees, right? And so, you know, if you do the math, there's roughly a million people who have a many chat account.
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And that's just have a many chat account. That's not necessarily the using it every day. And if you add in all the other tools and services that offer DM automation, let's do high end estimate and guess that there's 2 million people worldwide who even again, let's be bold, use DM automation. There's probably only 2 million who have an account, but let's assume all 100 % of those people use it. There's over 200 million businesses, small businesses on Instagram worldwide. So that means 1 % of small businesses.
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are using DM automation. So it's still a gold mine. It's still something that you can absolutely crush with. But I do think that there can be user fatigue. And I think what was working a few years ago where it was just like comment a keyword and then they get the link in response. That's kind of like the lazy way to go about things. And I still do that from time to time. But what I think is really working well now is using DM automation in other ways that aren't just comment guide and I'll send you my free guide, comment sale and I'll send you the 20 % off link. I use it like that.
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But for example, today on the day that we're recording this podcast, I posted like a tip on my Instagram and I said, if you want help, comment the word help. And then for every person who commented the word help, they got a message from me that literally said, hey, this message is automated, but I'm not going to sell you anything. I'm not going to try to get you on an email list. I'm not going to promote anything. Every response after this will be Brock. And then I asked them a question about what they need help with.
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I'm going in my DMs today and responding to all of those people. So now think about what I've done. I've gotten people to interact with one of my posts, then go into my DMs. They get an automated message asking them like, hey, what's your question? How can I help? And then I manually as a human being, I'm going in there and answering their questions and helping them out. So there's this really great service going on. I'm pouring into them. I'm giving them all this value and no, I'm not getting anything immediately in return. There's no links being sent. There's no leads being generated.
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But now the next time someone has an Instagram question, they know where they're going to go. The next time someone is looking for an answer to their problem or they need a quick tip, they know where they're going to go. They also know that it's okay to DM me. It's okay to reach out. It's okay to send me keywords in the messages because they're not always just going to get some buy now link. So that's one creative way. Another creative way that I've recently used DM automation. This one took a while to set up, but I had people guess I'm a breakfast burrito fiend and I had people guess how many breakfast burritos I ate.
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in 2025 and I literally set up an automation because you can only do on many chat up to 10 keywords. So I did the keyword 01234 all the way up to 10 and then repeat 11121314 and I did that all the way up to like three. Actually, I think I did all the way up to 400 and for every single response I said, nope, sorry, not quite. And then for the one correct answer, I set up an automation that was like, congratulations, you got it right. And then they won something. I don't know if they won like
38:28
a coaching call with me or something like that. But you should have seen my DMs. It was like for two or three days straight, just blowing up with people, just sending random numbers. Some people were like literally just counting up. They were one send, two send, three send over and over again, but there's only one right answer. So it took maybe a good 30 minutes to set that up. But it's just a fun, interactive way to, you know, engage with my audience and give them something. And they're kind of, it's like gamified, right? So there's this kind of back and forth thing. Took a little bit of time to set that one up. But I think in general,
38:57
Creative automations like that are the future of how we're going to see people really winning with DM automation on Instagram. my gosh. I love this idea because as you highlighted, it's encouraging people to know that they can DM you. I would argue so that when you do, let's say you're running a special for Instaclub Hub, your membership, and you're like, hey, reply with this keyword.
39:22
they're more likely to do it probably because they've already been chatting with you about burritos. Yeah, exactly. I think that is such a brilliant idea and what a fun way to get to know your audience and be a human. I know you talk about this all the time, I talk about it all the time. The more human you can be in this AI world, that's your superpower. We love AI and still be a human and share those fun facts about yourself. What's coming up for me too is I know a lot of business owners are like, my life is so boring or.
39:52
I don't know what to share. And just the fact that Brock is talking about breakfast burritos, it's like, that's not like he went to the moon. He just likes breakfast burritos. To your point, we tend to, I always say we're too precious with our content. We're too precious, right? So true. It's like, just let it go. I promise, just post it, move on with your life. It's not that serious.
40:19
A thousand percent. I couldn't agree more. I think that's such a great way to put it is I think our like our ego gets so involved and it feels like it's such a big thing every single post. I was having a conversation with my one of my friends the other day who's a content creator and he was telling me about all these systems he's coming up with for his future content. He's not really posting consistently right now and all these plans and projects and this this stuff and I'm like, dude, I've been doing this for like seven, eight years now. I'm almost at 900K followers on Instagram and
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I'm just now starting to come up with systems and repeatable formats and ways to like streamline these processes. And that's not to say that processes and automations and systemization is a bad thing, but I think that oftentimes business owners and content creators can get so caught up in that before they even get started. Yes. Like they're trying to like optimize how high, it'd be like a runner, like trying to optimize how high their socks are pulled up and how tight their laces are and like the perfect.
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pre-workout fuel. like, dude, just start running. Like, I don't care if you're in flip flops and in the speedo, just start running and then figure it out as you go. Oh my gosh, yes. We're so aligned on this. Yes, I always say like, you're not going to get your answer on a Google Doc, darling. You are not. Just go do the thing, you know? Yeah, exactly. Oh, I love that. This is gold. I just appreciate the reframe around DM automation.
41:42
because I love that you kind of highlighted that people like you and I who were swimming in the soup every day, it can feel like that's old news, but it's not. Like understanding that it is under leverage tool for so many businesses and it's still not being leveraged by many businesses. And for those of us who have accounts, let's think about how we can more creatively.
42:07
you know, use the platform to drive conversations. Along the DM automation, you know how they recently allowed you to, once you get a new follower, you can get an auto DM to that new follower. Any recommendations of what that first intro message should say? Hi, thanks for being here. I think short and sweet. think the biggest mistake people can make is like a sales pitch or like I've even heard some people being like, well, don't do a sales pitch, but like do a free thing or like direct them to one of your posts. Sure.
42:37
But my point of view is to say hi, welcome, right? Like think about someone walking into a coffee shop. If you walked into a coffee shop and the barista immediately yelled at you the second you walked in, hey, we're having a 20 % off sale on muffins. Even if you wanted a muffin, that's not a great customer experience. But if you walk into a coffee shop and there's a smile and like a, hey, thanks for stopping by today. You're immediately like, oh, I'm happy. Okay, now I'm gonna look around. Oh, there's a sale on muffins, right?
43:05
then you're engaged. So that's what I do. I have my message that just says like, hi, thanks so much for being here. I really appreciate it. That's it. And I had it as that for like a month or so. And it was crazy. Every single day I would get probably 50 to a hundred people who would literally say, this was so nice. Thank you. Thank you for this welcome. I really appreciate it. Wow. And then now I made a slight change where it still says, hi, thanks so much for being here. Welcome, whatever.
43:35
but I had a post going viral that was kind of reaching outside of my niche, which that's a whole nother conversation. It was bringing in followers who were not exactly my ideal followers, a lot of like 17 year old boys. And so I added a little like PS to the bottom of my welcome message that was like, I hope you're here for Instagram growth tips because that's about 98 % of what I post. And since then, sure, there were probably some people who have like followed gotten that message and they're like, oh, actually that's a good point. I'm not. So then they've unfollowed.
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But I've gotten a lot of people who are like, that's exactly why I'm here. Sign me up. Hey, do you have a, and then they're asking questions. So I'm just saying like, hey, I'm here to do this. And I'm not telling them how to purchase. I'm not telling them a keyword. I'm not giving them a link. I'm just like, hey, I'm here to help you grow on Instagram. And then I've from that gotten people like, do you have a course? Do you have coaching? Do you have a YouTube? Things like that. So again, if nothing else, just a hi and welcome. I love that. That's so good. That's so good.
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Okay, so to close out our conversation, I wanted to play a little game with Brock and I got his consent before we recorded, because I am all about asking for consent, okay? And this game is called Finish the Sentence. Okay, are you ready, Brock? I'm ready. Okay, the biggest misconception about Instagram right now is? That it's really tough to grow. Love it. I think it's actually very simple to grow.
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I don't think it's easy necessarily, but I do think it is easier than it has ever been before. I think the algorithms are more balanced and more fair than they've ever been before. And I also think it's simpler. The algorithms are simpler. It's easier to make better content than ever before. There's less hacks and gimmicks and tricks that you have to do. And it's a lot more, can you make good content? Can you make a lot of it? I love it. Okay. Small business owners make Instagram harder than it needs to be when they...
45:32
Create a new post every single day. Yeah. I know we talked about this earlier, but stop trying to make a new post every single day. Batch create. Just like you don't take meetings every single day, right? You schedule meetings in advance. Even if you do take them every day, you're scheduling them in advance. You're not like waking up like, what meetings am I going to have today? You schedule them. Do the same thing with your posts. Oh, I love that. It's so refreshing to connect Instagram into like our real world lives because it goes back to that disconnect that we all have where like we
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Overthink it and to your point you don't wake up and you're like wait what meetings I'll just do this on the fly Okay, next sentence. Are you ready? Okay, if I could delete one piece of Instagram advice from the internet it would be To focus on valuable content and let me explain that I think there's plenty of value and valuable content, but I think when people hear post valuable content
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what their brain internalizes is post-educational content. And so then every single post they make, they're just focused on how can I cram as much value and education and knowledge into this post as possible when the reality is people want to be entertained. And yeah, you can educate, but people don't care to learn unless you're a great entertainer as well. Like I think about Robin Williams in, what was it? Good Will Hunting, right?
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you have to be a great entertainer in order to get people to care about your education. The reality is, if all you're doing is three tips for this, seven things to do for this, people can get that off YouTube, people can get that off ChatYBT, they can Google it, like they can find their answers nowadays. So if you really want them to care about your valuable education, focus on entertainment first.
47:21
Mm-hmm. And if someone's listening and they're like, but Brock, I'm not very funny or I have a very bland, boring personality. Yeah, that's fine. You don't have to be funny. You don't have to be a creative genius. You don't have to be a comedic genius. You don't have to be any of those things. I think that oftentimes being bland, being unfunny, being more mundane, that is so much more relatable. Like you don't have to be this big over the top caricature of yourself if you can just lean into
47:50
what makes you unique, or you can lean into the things that you do and don't like, or you can do more storytelling that will allow you to connect with more people on a deeper level than trying to be some comedian. Yeah, I love that. Okay, last one. The metric that matters more than people realize is? Shares. I think we really, because of the whole valuable content thing, we focus on saves when it's really all about shares. Absolutely. That's huge.
48:19
I know everyone's listening and they want to help you get to your goal because you have a very specific goal this year and I want to highlight for our listeners because they love to support businesses in achieving their goals. So what is your follower goal on Instagram this year and tell us about what you're doing to achieve that. Yeah, my goal is a million followers. I actually set that goal in 2025 as well as a lofty goal in 2025. It would have taken a lot to hit it in 2025. So I think at the beginning of 2025, I was
48:47
maybe 600K or 700K. So I really would have had to grow significantly. But at the current rate that I'm growing, I think I should get there maybe sometime in the summer or something. I don't know, maybe end of the year. I don't know. So exciting. Yeah, so it should be. And who knows? Things could bottom out and maybe I don't get there this year. Things could go viral and I could get there in a week. I don't know. But what I'm doing is I started a challenge and I encourage everyone to start their own challenge or series.
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something that you can do every single day that's exciting for people to tune back into and keep coming back to and know you for and also for you, then you don't have to think about what to post that day, because you can just do your daily challenge or series. But mine is reviewing a reel of one person who follows me every single day. So every single day I pick a random person, I review their content, I give you kind of live feedback of like, here's the thing that they did wrong, here's the things they did right.
49:43
And it's super, super educational, super valuable, but it's also entertaining in the process because there's a giveaway component to it. There's a gamified component to it. There's a dynamicness because it's live feedback. So that's what I've been doing and that challenge has been going really well. It's really fun to do as well. Yay. I love how you do that. That's such a great way to learn and teach in an entertaining way as we were just talking about. So where can people follow you on Instagram and then tell us about InstaclubHub? Totally.
50:12
Brock11Johnson is my Instagram handle. That's what I am across all social networks. And that's the best place to get connected. Like I said earlier, I'm very active in my DMs. So if you DM me, you'll probably get a message back. And then the Instaclubbub is our Instagram membership where we help people grow on Instagram in the least amount of time possible. We have monthly personalized content calendars for all of our members. We have live trainings, yada yada, all that good stuff. But if people wanna check it out, we have a $7 trial. It's two weeks for $7.
50:40
and you get full access to pretty much everything in the club. And that's instaclubhub.com forward slash trial. Fabulous. And we will make sure that we link everything down in the show notes. thank you so much for your time today. I so appreciate you sharing your wisdom with our audience. Of course. Thank you so much for having me. I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Brock and that you're walking away with more clarity around your workflow and how to make your content actually drive results.
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If you love this episode, come meet Brock and me in person at Social Media Marketing World in Anaheim, California. It's going down April 28th through the 30th, 2026. Brock's gonna be teaching his Instagram growth formula and I'll be presenting a session on Reels to Revenue. It's gonna be epic and so much fun. You definitely wanna be in this room. I'll drop the link to check out Social Media Marketing World in the show notes. And if you have any question about today's
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conversation or DM automation or anything else. Remember, my DMs are always open. So make sure you're following me over there at Elizabeth Marberry, M-A-R-B-E-R-R-Y. Definitely give Brock a follow over on Instagram as well, Brock 11 Johnson. We so appreciate your support. If you loved today's episode, please consider sharing it with a business bestie or colleague that helps us get in front of more brilliant business owners like yourself who are ready to simplify Instagram.
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and get seen and paid in 2026. Thank you so much for listening and I can't wait to strut it with you next week. Thank you for listening to strut it. If you're ready to start leveraging Instagram to grow your business, then you're gonna wanna grab my free monetize your IG guide where you'll learn seven simple and proven ways to finally make money on Instagram. You can grab your guide at ElizabethMarberry.com
52:34
That's elizabethmarberry.com slash freebies to get my monetize your IG guide. If you got some incredible value from today's episode, be sure to leave a review and subscribe on your favorite podcast platform. And I cannot wait to start it with you again next week.
